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	<title>Comments on: The Ever Expanding Civil Government &#8211; A Biblical Perspective</title>
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		<title>By: DIY Sermon Outlines &#187; The Ever Expanding Civil Government</title>
		<link>http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/2009/08/27/the-ever-expanding-civil-government-a-biblical-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-132</link>
		<dc:creator>DIY Sermon Outlines &#187; The Ever Expanding Civil Government</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 03:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/?p=1941#comment-132</guid>
		<description>[...] Leads to deifying civil leaders (Acts 12:20-22)  Read the article: The Ever Expanding Civil Government: A Biblical Perspective [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Leads to deifying civil leaders (Acts 12:20-22)  Read the article: The Ever Expanding Civil Government: A Biblical Perspective [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Sochor</title>
		<link>http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/2009/08/27/the-ever-expanding-civil-government-a-biblical-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Sochor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 03:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/?p=1941#comment-95</guid>
		<description>The purpose of this article was simply to remind Christians of the God-ordained role of civil government. The New Testament most certainly speaks to this. We see that God ordained civil authorities to punish evildoers, protect the innocent, and provide and maintain and secure environment for its citizens.

Obviously rulers in this country and around the world have gone far beyond that. This is not surprising. Man has a long history of going beyond the scope that God has given him in all matters about which He has revealed His will. This will undoubtedly continue. Even many of the proponents of &quot;small government&quot; in this country want to extend the role that God ordained. Since Christ didn&#039;t come to establish a new physical kingdom separate from all others, Christians should be subject to the government over them (big or small) to the degree that God allows.

This article is meant to be a word of caution. There are dangers that exist in going beyond the God-ordained role of government. So, as Christians who are governed ultimately by the doctrine of Christ, should we call for or support government expanding their divinely-given role? On what basis would a Christian answer &quot;yes&quot;?

God revealed to us the role He gave to civil government, just as He revealed many other things. I believe this is important. God hasn&#039;t specified a certain form of government, but He has specified a certain role. The view we have about civil government must be based on God&#039;s word, just like every other area where God reveals His will to us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The purpose of this article was simply to remind Christians of the God-ordained role of civil government. The New Testament most certainly speaks to this. We see that God ordained civil authorities to punish evildoers, protect the innocent, and provide and maintain and secure environment for its citizens.</p>
<p>Obviously rulers in this country and around the world have gone far beyond that. This is not surprising. Man has a long history of going beyond the scope that God has given him in all matters about which He has revealed His will. This will undoubtedly continue. Even many of the proponents of &#8220;small government&#8221; in this country want to extend the role that God ordained. Since Christ didn&#8217;t come to establish a new physical kingdom separate from all others, Christians should be subject to the government over them (big or small) to the degree that God allows.</p>
<p>This article is meant to be a word of caution. There are dangers that exist in going beyond the God-ordained role of government. So, as Christians who are governed ultimately by the doctrine of Christ, should we call for or support government expanding their divinely-given role? On what basis would a Christian answer &#8220;yes&#8221;?</p>
<p>God revealed to us the role He gave to civil government, just as He revealed many other things. I believe this is important. God hasn&#8217;t specified a certain form of government, but He has specified a certain role. The view we have about civil government must be based on God&#8217;s word, just like every other area where God reveals His will to us.</p>
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		<title>By: Edwin Crozier</title>
		<link>http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/2009/08/27/the-ever-expanding-civil-government-a-biblical-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>Edwin Crozier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 00:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/?p=1941#comment-93</guid>
		<description>I hate to be a voice of dissent on this one. However, I do disagree. First, I think this article begins with a false premise about Nimrod and then moves forward incorrectly after that. The text tells us Nimrod was a mighty hunter before the Lord. The implication is that he was approved by God not that he went beyond what God wanted. The fact is just as we don&#039;t really know why Cain&#039;s sacrifice was wrong, we don&#039;t know what God told Nimrod or didn&#039;t. The text simply doesn&#039;t say whether Nimrod was right or wrong.

Then regarding the king of Israel: No doubt, the people were wrong in their motivation. However, God had said long before that happened that they would have a king. It was part of His plan to prepare the way for the ultimate king--Genesis 49:10.

The New Testament was not written to govern earthly governments. It neither outlines what is a good government nor describes what is a bad government. Interestingly, the Old Testament law did provide law that was about benevolence for the poor and about healthcare to the degree that they could do it. Additionally, it was the Egyptian government whose welfare for the people provided protection for Israel&#039;s family. It was the Israelite government that protected the people who had gotten in major debt during Nehemiah&#039;s day. 

I also think it is important to note that the Romans and Peter passages are not written to tell the government the scope of its work, but to tell us to submit to our government. It was written during a time when government was not at all fulfilling the supposed biblical scope. Further, I can&#039;t help but notice that not once does the scripture tell Christians what to support politically or what to vote for or against. The only thing it tells us to do is to pray for our leaders that we may have peace (I Timothy 2:1ff). Please note that passage is not written to provide a scope for the government but to tell us as individuals what to do.

Frankly, I&#039;m all for small government. I&#039;m opposed to nationalized healthcare and bailouts. However, I&#039;m also opposed to Christians acting like God has told us how to vote or has outlined what is the proper form of government. I&#039;m opposed to Christians on either side acting like the way we vote is an indication of how good of a Christian we are. All God has explained is how we are to act no matter what government we are under, monarchy, communism, democracy or whatever.

Is it a problem if we put our trust in government and not God? Of course. But the fact that we can do that doesn&#039;t make the government providing for us a sin. Is it wrong for our company to buy us insurance because we might put our trust in our boss instead of God? No. Is it wrong for us to have money because we might put our trust in money instead of God? No. 

Is it wrong to deify our emperor or president? Of course. But that doesn&#039;t make it wrong to have one. 

I simply encourage all of us not to start making rules where God hasn&#039;t and drawing lines where God doesn&#039;t. Let&#039;s not make political matters a determination of spirituality when God left that completely out of His word with the exception of the fact that we were to submit to whichever one He has established over us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to be a voice of dissent on this one. However, I do disagree. First, I think this article begins with a false premise about Nimrod and then moves forward incorrectly after that. The text tells us Nimrod was a mighty hunter before the Lord. The implication is that he was approved by God not that he went beyond what God wanted. The fact is just as we don&#8217;t really know why Cain&#8217;s sacrifice was wrong, we don&#8217;t know what God told Nimrod or didn&#8217;t. The text simply doesn&#8217;t say whether Nimrod was right or wrong.</p>
<p>Then regarding the king of Israel: No doubt, the people were wrong in their motivation. However, God had said long before that happened that they would have a king. It was part of His plan to prepare the way for the ultimate king&#8211;Genesis 49:10.</p>
<p>The New Testament was not written to govern earthly governments. It neither outlines what is a good government nor describes what is a bad government. Interestingly, the Old Testament law did provide law that was about benevolence for the poor and about healthcare to the degree that they could do it. Additionally, it was the Egyptian government whose welfare for the people provided protection for Israel&#8217;s family. It was the Israelite government that protected the people who had gotten in major debt during Nehemiah&#8217;s day. </p>
<p>I also think it is important to note that the Romans and Peter passages are not written to tell the government the scope of its work, but to tell us to submit to our government. It was written during a time when government was not at all fulfilling the supposed biblical scope. Further, I can&#8217;t help but notice that not once does the scripture tell Christians what to support politically or what to vote for or against. The only thing it tells us to do is to pray for our leaders that we may have peace (I Timothy 2:1ff). Please note that passage is not written to provide a scope for the government but to tell us as individuals what to do.</p>
<p>Frankly, I&#8217;m all for small government. I&#8217;m opposed to nationalized healthcare and bailouts. However, I&#8217;m also opposed to Christians acting like God has told us how to vote or has outlined what is the proper form of government. I&#8217;m opposed to Christians on either side acting like the way we vote is an indication of how good of a Christian we are. All God has explained is how we are to act no matter what government we are under, monarchy, communism, democracy or whatever.</p>
<p>Is it a problem if we put our trust in government and not God? Of course. But the fact that we can do that doesn&#8217;t make the government providing for us a sin. Is it wrong for our company to buy us insurance because we might put our trust in our boss instead of God? No. Is it wrong for us to have money because we might put our trust in money instead of God? No. </p>
<p>Is it wrong to deify our emperor or president? Of course. But that doesn&#8217;t make it wrong to have one. </p>
<p>I simply encourage all of us not to start making rules where God hasn&#8217;t and drawing lines where God doesn&#8217;t. Let&#8217;s not make political matters a determination of spirituality when God left that completely out of His word with the exception of the fact that we were to submit to whichever one He has established over us.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Haile</title>
		<link>http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/2009/08/27/the-ever-expanding-civil-government-a-biblical-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Haile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 13:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/?p=1941#comment-78</guid>
		<description>To ELDV and Andy: Romans 13:5 and 1 Peter 2:13 are helpful on this point. Paul said, &quot;Therefore, one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God&#039;s wrath but also for the sake of conscience.&quot; Peter tells us to &quot;submit to every ordinance of man for the Lord&#039;s sake.&quot; We must comply with civil authority insofar as it does not conflict with God&#039;s authority.

Of course, the present monstrosity that we call &quot;government&quot; in the US today, far exceeds the boundaries of Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2. Government has become the god of many. The Romans had their &quot;Caesars,&quot; who were regarded as divine, and we now have &quot;the anointed one,&quot; Barack Obama. Too many Americans (and illegals) look to their god-government for their daily bread and over-all well-being.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To ELDV and Andy: Romans 13:5 and 1 Peter 2:13 are helpful on this point. Paul said, &#8220;Therefore, one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God&#8217;s wrath but also for the sake of conscience.&#8221; Peter tells us to &#8220;submit to every ordinance of man for the Lord&#8217;s sake.&#8221; We must comply with civil authority insofar as it does not conflict with God&#8217;s authority.</p>
<p>Of course, the present monstrosity that we call &#8220;government&#8221; in the US today, far exceeds the boundaries of Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2. Government has become the god of many. The Romans had their &#8220;Caesars,&#8221; who were regarded as divine, and we now have &#8220;the anointed one,&#8221; Barack Obama. Too many Americans (and illegals) look to their god-government for their daily bread and over-all well-being.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Sochor</title>
		<link>http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/2009/08/27/the-ever-expanding-civil-government-a-biblical-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Sochor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 05:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/?p=1941#comment-76</guid>
		<description>ELDV, when I speak of the &quot;Biblical&quot; view of government, I simply mean the role God has ordained for civil government. When we look to the New Testament, we see a very limited role ordained by God - punish evildoers, protect the innocent, provide and maintain a secure environment. Anything more goes beyond what God ordained.

Now, does that matter? For the non-Christian, no. It doesn&#039;t matter. If it mattered to them what God thought, they would likely become Christians. Civil governments are ruled by men and they operate them as they please. They may choose to do what God ordained government to do, or not. They may also choose to more, according to their own desires.

Does this matter for the Christian? Yes and no. You are correct that a Christian can live under any form of government. We should put our complete trust in God, regardless of what the civil authorities choose to do. In this sense, no, it doesn&#039;t matter to the Christian what role the government chooses for itself. Our primary concern is serving God.

On the other hand, there is a sense in which it does matter to the Christian. Understanding the limited scope of what God has ordained for government, how can a Christian call for government to do anything beyond that role? Sure, in many cases, the government is going to go beyond the limited role we see discussed in the New Testament. But it is not the Christian&#039;s place to advocate or promote it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ELDV, when I speak of the &#8220;Biblical&#8221; view of government, I simply mean the role God has ordained for civil government. When we look to the New Testament, we see a very limited role ordained by God &#8211; punish evildoers, protect the innocent, provide and maintain a secure environment. Anything more goes beyond what God ordained.</p>
<p>Now, does that matter? For the non-Christian, no. It doesn&#8217;t matter. If it mattered to them what God thought, they would likely become Christians. Civil governments are ruled by men and they operate them as they please. They may choose to do what God ordained government to do, or not. They may also choose to more, according to their own desires.</p>
<p>Does this matter for the Christian? Yes and no. You are correct that a Christian can live under any form of government. We should put our complete trust in God, regardless of what the civil authorities choose to do. In this sense, no, it doesn&#8217;t matter to the Christian what role the government chooses for itself. Our primary concern is serving God.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there is a sense in which it does matter to the Christian. Understanding the limited scope of what God has ordained for government, how can a Christian call for government to do anything beyond that role? Sure, in many cases, the government is going to go beyond the limited role we see discussed in the New Testament. But it is not the Christian&#8217;s place to advocate or promote it.</p>
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		<title>By: ELDV</title>
		<link>http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/2009/08/27/the-ever-expanding-civil-government-a-biblical-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>ELDV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 03:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/?p=1941#comment-75</guid>
		<description>I feel compelled to clarify something: the point of the above is not to say that &quot;big government&quot; is any more &quot;Biblical&quot; than &quot;small government.&quot;  If one believes that smaller government is the best way for government to function, well and good.  But to say that such is the &quot;Biblical&quot; view of the government goes way too far. 

According to the New Testament, there is no &quot;Biblical&quot; view of government, if by that statement one is seeking to discover the way that a government should operate.  All passages in the NT regarding government involve the Christian&#039;s relationship to government, and not about the way government should be run.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel compelled to clarify something: the point of the above is not to say that &#8220;big government&#8221; is any more &#8220;Biblical&#8221; than &#8220;small government.&#8221;  If one believes that smaller government is the best way for government to function, well and good.  But to say that such is the &#8220;Biblical&#8221; view of the government goes way too far. </p>
<p>According to the New Testament, there is no &#8220;Biblical&#8221; view of government, if by that statement one is seeking to discover the way that a government should operate.  All passages in the NT regarding government involve the Christian&#8217;s relationship to government, and not about the way government should be run.</p>
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		<title>By: ELDV</title>
		<link>http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/2009/08/27/the-ever-expanding-civil-government-a-biblical-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>ELDV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 00:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/?p=1941#comment-74</guid>
		<description>Where, in the New Testament, do we get any indication whatsoever that the nature of governance is of concern to the Christian?

Romans 13:1-7 is descriptive, not proscriptive.  It is not sufficient to provide a complete model of governance.  It is illuminating that every time anyone has ever attempted to set up a government under &quot;Christian&quot; ideals, they always end up relying more on the OT than the NT.  That&#039;s because God&#039;s pre-eminent concern in the NT is the Kingdom of Christ, and not the various forms of governance of man.  Any form of earthly governance is going to find immediate challenges with the New Testament when they would presume to defend themselves.  

The Bible tells us to place our faith and trust in God (Matthew 6:33).  If we place our trust in governments OR corporations or benevolent organizations or any construct of man, we&#039;re misplacing our trust.  That is why a Christian can live under any form of government using any form of system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where, in the New Testament, do we get any indication whatsoever that the nature of governance is of concern to the Christian?</p>
<p>Romans 13:1-7 is descriptive, not proscriptive.  It is not sufficient to provide a complete model of governance.  It is illuminating that every time anyone has ever attempted to set up a government under &#8220;Christian&#8221; ideals, they always end up relying more on the OT than the NT.  That&#8217;s because God&#8217;s pre-eminent concern in the NT is the Kingdom of Christ, and not the various forms of governance of man.  Any form of earthly governance is going to find immediate challenges with the New Testament when they would presume to defend themselves.  </p>
<p>The Bible tells us to place our faith and trust in God (Matthew 6:33).  If we place our trust in governments OR corporations or benevolent organizations or any construct of man, we&#8217;re misplacing our trust.  That is why a Christian can live under any form of government using any form of system.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Sochor</title>
		<link>http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/2009/08/27/the-ever-expanding-civil-government-a-biblical-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Sochor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/?p=1941#comment-69</guid>
		<description>Jeremy, a political science degree is good for learning what &lt;i&gt;man&lt;/i&gt; has to say about the role of government. But you can&#039;t ignore the fact that the Bible speaks of the God-ordained role of civil government. My point is that in all things, politics included, we should focus on what God directs instead of what man desires.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy, a political science degree is good for learning what <i>man</i> has to say about the role of government. But you can&#8217;t ignore the fact that the Bible speaks of the God-ordained role of civil government. My point is that in all things, politics included, we should focus on what God directs instead of what man desires.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/2009/08/27/the-ever-expanding-civil-government-a-biblical-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/?p=1941#comment-68</guid>
		<description>The bible is useful for salvation and righteousness and our relationship with God. Anything else is outside of the scope of the bible. If you want to study the role of the government, go get a political science degree.

&quot;The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go.&quot; Galileo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bible is useful for salvation and righteousness and our relationship with God. Anything else is outside of the scope of the bible. If you want to study the role of the government, go get a political science degree.</p>
<p>&#8220;The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go.&#8221; Galileo</p>
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		<title>By: Eva Sochor</title>
		<link>http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/2009/08/27/the-ever-expanding-civil-government-a-biblical-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>Eva Sochor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/?p=1941#comment-67</guid>
		<description>Interesting that the role of civil government legitimized in the New Testament is being watered down and eroded today -- protecting the innocent (the unborn, e.g.) and providing a secure environment (weakening the scope of national security, e.g.).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that the role of civil government legitimized in the New Testament is being watered down and eroded today &#8212; protecting the innocent (the unborn, e.g.) and providing a secure environment (weakening the scope of national security, e.g.).</p>
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